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Sons FC
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil T wrote:
Sons FC wrote:
I think you have misunderstood the point.

I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts.


Whilst the solidarity payment is gross, the 'ticket on the gate' must have the VAT deducted as that portion never belongs to the club.

Remember the club is a tax collector for HMRC.....


That is not in dispute Phil but the solidarity payment, as income, will be subject to Corporation Tax, which never belongs to the club, etc.
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Phil T
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sons FC wrote:
Phil T wrote:
Sons FC wrote:
I think you have misunderstood the point.

I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts.


Whilst the solidarity payment is gross, the 'ticket on the gate' must have the VAT deducted as that portion never belongs to the club.

Remember the club is a tax collector for HMRC.....


That is not in dispute Phil but the solidarity payment, as income, will be subject to Corporation Tax, which never belongs to the club, etc.


Corporation tax is only on profits, not revenue.
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Sons FC
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil T wrote:
Sons FC wrote:
Phil T wrote:
Sons FC wrote:
I think you have misunderstood the point.

I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts.


Whilst the solidarity payment is gross, the 'ticket on the gate' must have the VAT deducted as that portion never belongs to the club.

Remember the club is a tax collector for HMRC.....


That is not in dispute Phil but the solidarity payment, as income, will be subject to Corporation Tax, which never belongs to the club, etc.


Corporation tax is only on profits, not revenue.


I know. This is still not the point - like your point in VAT where you deduct the whole of the VAT from the income rather than the VAT balance.

My point remains that the solidarity payment will not be as much as Crawley Town take through the gate.
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Phil T
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sons FC wrote:
Phil T wrote:
Sons FC wrote:
Phil T wrote:
Sons FC wrote:
I think you have misunderstood the point.

I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts.


Whilst the solidarity payment is gross, the 'ticket on the gate' must have the VAT deducted as that portion never belongs to the club.

Remember the club is a tax collector for HMRC.....


That is not in dispute Phil but the solidarity payment, as income, will be subject to Corporation Tax, which never belongs to the club, etc.


Corporation tax is only on profits, not revenue.


I know. This is still not the point - like your point in VAT where you deduct the whole of the VAT from the income rather than the VAT balance.

My point remains that the solidarity payment will not be as much as Crawley Town take through the gate.


Methinks you are not an accountant........
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Simon
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sons FC wrote:
I think you have misunderstood the point.

I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts.


Your logic is flawed then.

Your average ticket of 17 is only 14.15 to the club as the VAT has to be paid regardless. So 14.15 is effectively the gross amount as it is the maximum the club will ever see.

However the solidarity payment is 100% income, you only pay corporation tax if the company makes a profit. No profit = no tax. How many years in the last decade do you think Crawley Town has made a profit?
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Simon
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sons FC wrote:


I know. This is still not the point - like your point in VAT where you deduct the whole of the VAT from the income rather than the VAT balance.

My point remains that the solidarity payment will not be as much as Crawley Town take through the gate.


Not convinced. If you take 11 as being the average ticket price when you include STs, kids, free tickets, concessions etc that is 9.16 plus VAT.

9.16 x 2412 x 23 = 508,000. Hardly anything in it. Particularly next year when we will lose two of our biggest gates (Pompey and Plymouth) and gain Lincoln and FGR.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sons FC wrote:
I think you have misunderstood the point.

I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts.


I think you have misunderstood.

To say our average ticket price is 17, when the TOP PRICE for standing is less than that is, at best, naive. At worst, It's Diane Abbott level maths. Nothing to do with gross or net of VAT.

The club have previously stated the average ticket price to be around the 8/9 mark (remember the cheapest ticket is a quid!) so to make any meaningful comparison, you must start with a meaningful (and correct!) figure.

Ian
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Armchairfan
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian wrote:
Sons FC wrote:
I think you have misunderstood the point.

I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts.


I think you have misunderstood.

To say our average ticket price is 17, when the TOP PRICE for standing is less than that is, at best, naive. At worst, It's Diane Abbott level maths. Nothing to do with gross or net of VAT.

The club have previously stated the average ticket price to be around the 8/9 mark (remember the cheapest ticket is a quid!) so to make any meaningful comparison, you must start with a meaningful (and correct!) figure.

Ian

This is an annual subject isn't it.
It always ends up with the same answers too doesn't it.
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Ian
Director of Football
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Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Last Visit: 30 May 2017
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Topics: 214
Location: The Parish of Rusper

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Armchairfan wrote:
Ian wrote:
Sons FC wrote:
I think you have misunderstood the point.

I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts.


I think you have misunderstood.

To say our average ticket price is 17, when the TOP PRICE for standing is less than that is, at best, naive. At worst, It's Diane Abbott level maths. Nothing to do with gross or net of VAT.

The club have previously stated the average ticket price to be around the 8/9 mark (remember the cheapest ticket is a quid!) so to make any meaningful comparison, you must start with a meaningful (and correct!) figure.

Ian

This is an annual subject isn't it.
It always ends up with the same answers too doesn't it.


The average ticket cost is, and it does. Yes.

I see we've started out on fans travelling to London on another thread too Laughing
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