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EU Referendum
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thad
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Four and Twenty Sturgeons
Looked down from Inverness
Another referendum
Another bloomin mess

But when the dust has settled
And overcome the shocks
It seems the Welsh & English
Have stuffed the Micks & Jocks

Is our United Kingdom now
to be put to the sword?
Who knows, who cares, who's bothered
Just blame the foreign horde.
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TownMeadLeftover
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
Four and Twenty Sturgeons
Looked down from Inverness
Another referendum
Another bloomin mess

But when the dust has settled
And overcome the shocks
It seems the Welsh & English
Have stuffed the Micks & Jocks

Is our United Kingdom now
to be put to the sword?
Who knows, who cares, who's bothered
Just blame the foreign horde.


Merci Monsieur Farage
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Andrew
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I predicted DC would go (page 4). I still think Boris will replace him, or be a senior player in a government run by a figurehead. Reading though this thread I was slightly amused to see that Ian suggested - albeit unlikely - Henry Smith or Nicholas Soames as alternatives, as they were on opposite sides of this referendum. As I have been in the Party for over 35 years ( boo hiss Wink ) I know both well so, err, no comment Laughing

I am disappointed with the result, I think we oldies have let the younger generation down. For what it is worth Mrs Andrew is a Conservative Councillor on CBC and was the most vocal member of the Conservative group for Remain. I am not saying she was the only Remain supporter in the group, just most vocal.

There is a petition for a second referendum. It won't happen of course, let's be realistic, but it demonstrates the level of emotion about this.
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TownMeadLeftover
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew wrote:
I predicted DC would go (page 4). I still think Boris will replace him, or be a senior player in a government run by a figurehead. Reading though this thread I was slightly amused to see that Ian suggested - albeit unlikely - Henry Smith or Nicholas Soames as alternatives, as they were on opposite sides of this referendum. As I have been in the Party for over 35 years ( boo hiss Wink ) I know both well so, err, no comment Laughing

I am disappointed with the result, I think we oldies have let the younger generation down. For what it is worth Mrs Andrew is a Conservative Councillor on CBC and was the most vocal member of the Conservative group for Remain. I am not saying she was the only Remain supporter in the group, just most vocal.

There is a petition for a second referendum. It won't happen of course, let's be realistic, but it demonstrates the level of emotion about this.


It seems that some are talking about Andrea Leadsom as a possible new leader, a major brain behind the Leave campaign but not a figurehead during the shouting and screaming leading up to the vote

The petition, IMO, is ridiculous. What sort of democracy do we want if any old result can be changed by the minority?, can you imagine a team like Crawley beating Man Utd in the FA Cup only for the MU supporters to rattle up a petition and have the result overturned because they don't like losing, it's a nonsense, or am I just showing my age?
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thad
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1916 - year of the Easter rising in Dublin and Irish regiments serving with distinction in the Somme & Salonika.. and the same year that an assurance was given by the British PM that there would be an exclusion from the Irish Home Rule Bill for the Unionists in Northern Ireland.

That commitment would eventually lead to partition and the formation of the Province of Northern Ireland, as a retained part of the UK, upon Irish independence.

2016 - European referendum - as usual in Northern Ireland, voting patterns there reflected sectarian divisions, with Unionists by & large voting to leave the EU, but the Province overall voting to remain... same old local squabbles...

..however... here's the twist...

...the subsequent national triumph, that they helped to achieve, of the leave campaign... not only raises the prospect now of - an absolute nightmare vision for Unionists - the Province splitting from the UK.. a concept that over the last century, they have fought, maimed & killed to oppose...

..but, the only possible scenario that they would consider even worse... unity with the Irish Republic... a concept that over the last century, their opponents have fought, maimed & killed to achieve...!

Be careful of what you wish for Surprised

ps. The more appealing alternative for the Unionists might be a new nation uniting the Province with their historic homeland & "lalland" heritage... Scotland... or how about the emergence of a "United Celtic Republic"...interesting times..!
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Paulc222
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
Four and Twenty Sturgeons
Looked down from Inverness
Another referendum
Another bloomin mess

But when the dust has settled
And overcome the shocks
It seems the Welsh & English
Have stuffed the Micks & Jocks

Is our United Kingdom now
to be put to the sword?
Who knows, who cares, who's bothered
Just blame the foreign horde.


Something fishy going on in Scotland - a Salmond succeeded by a Sturgeon.
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Sussex Boy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Marr said it right this morning.

Go onto the Andrew Marr show twitter page and watch the 3min video.

Its the best explanation of why the country voted the way it did.
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Paulc222
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sussex Boy wrote:
Andrew Marr said it right this morning.

Go onto the Andrew Marr show twitter page and watch the 3min video.

Its the best explanation of why the country voted the way it did.


Yes, I did see that via Facebook earlier and he put it over very well.
I'm aware that it was possibly the one chance for people who have felt powerless for a long time to actually take some power. The tragedy is that they will suffer the repercussions too.
I suppose it's a bit like that old song 'Me and Bobby McGhee'. (... freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose ... ).
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thad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the sentiment of the Parliamentary Labour Party... they are in the business of trying to win a majority in a general election... but cannot understand their timing... if your enemy is fighting among itself, don't you stand on the sideline and let them take the headlines... why add to the chaos now...?

scratch

As Emily Thornberry said... In any case wasn't Corbyn going to be damned whatever approach he took and even if the referendum result was different..?

He clearly had his doubts about the EU institution and never bothered to disguise it... but isn't that how it was for most individuals and ultimately for the UK, which ultimately decided 48/52... a choice made on balance...(?)
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Ian
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TownMeadLeftover wrote:

Obviously 11 or 12 million registered voters thought it was all too much trouble to bother, blame them if blame is to be apportioned, hopefully none of them will have the brass neck to complain about the outcome


I saw an interview on Facebook with various teenagers who had 'forgotten' to vote, and they were all saying how unfair it was that they had missed the chance to save the world Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes *beep* teenagers.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew wrote:
Reading though this thread I was slightly amused to see that Ian suggested - albeit unlikely - Henry Smith or Nicholas Soames as alternatives, as they were on opposite sides of this referendum. As I have been in the Party for over 35 years ( boo hiss Wink ) I know both well so, err, no comment Laughing


Indeed they were, but they are both what I would call PROPER Conservatives with Conservative values, not liberal (Cameron) or socialist (Osborne) infiltrators wearing blue ties.
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Jim Baker
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody in the remain camp came out and argued for the EU . The general gist was we have a good deal with our opt outs and rebates so let's stick it to Johnny Foreigner with our special deals.

Nobody said they wanted 'ever closer union'. Nobody argued for a European army but or a weakening of national democracy in favour of a more federalist European state.

If those in charge of the remain side don't believe in the project how did they hope to persuade the rest of the country?

A nation of shopkeepers needs more than economic reasons to do things. We need to marry that with emotional/moral truth too.

Casey
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Stuart of Shildon
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Reading though this thread I was slightly amused to see that Ian suggested - albeit unlikely - Henry Smith or Nicholas Soames as alternatives, as they were on opposite sides of this referendum. As I have been in the Party for over 35 years ( boo hiss Wink ) I know both well so, err, no comment Laughing


Indeed they were, but they are both what I would call PROPER Conservatives with Conservative values, not liberal (Cameron) or socialist (Osborne) infiltrators wearing blue ties.
In what way is Osborne a socialist, please explain.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuart of Shildon wrote:
Ian wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Reading though this thread I was slightly amused to see that Ian suggested - albeit unlikely - Henry Smith or Nicholas Soames as alternatives, as they were on opposite sides of this referendum. As I have been in the Party for over 35 years ( boo hiss Wink ) I know both well so, err, no comment Laughing


Indeed they were, but they are both what I would call PROPER Conservatives with Conservative values, not liberal (Cameron) or socialist (Osborne) infiltrators wearing blue ties.
In what way is Osborne a socialist, please explain.


We've gone over this before.

Just as a taster, in case you can't remember and cba to go and find it, how about:
Removal of higher rate tax relief on BTL mortgage payments,
3% additional stamp duty on additional homes,
Maintaining the 45% rate of income tax,
Regular lowering of the 40% band to remove any benefit gained by the increase to the Personal allowance (though thats stopped now)
Tapering of Annual Allowance for Pensions contributions for those earning over 150k and the lowering of the LTA for all.
Tapering of child benefit for households where one member of the household earns over 50k, to removal when one earns 60k.

All good bleed the self reliant socialist policies.
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thad
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Europe question highlights the same old problem that always trips the Tories up... they want a free market all the way up to the point it brings things that they aren't comfortable about...

...and then it is down to the government/nanny state or those demons in Brussels...

...they want the public purse to fund - at huge cost - free-market failures with banks & financial institutions up to and including public ownership... THAT IS SOCIALISM... but at the same time want to cherry-pick which of the varied social issues market forces raise, are funded or even addressed..!
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