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Sons FC
Trainee
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Last Visit: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 19
Topics: 0
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 Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:46 am Post subject:
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| Phil T wrote: | | Sons FC wrote: | I think you have misunderstood the point.
I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts. |
Whilst the solidarity payment is gross, the 'ticket on the gate' must have the VAT deducted as that portion never belongs to the club.
Remember the club is a tax collector for HMRC..... |
That is not in dispute Phil but the solidarity payment, as income, will be subject to Corporation Tax, which never belongs to the club, etc. |
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Phil T
Assistant Manager
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Last Visit: 18 Feb 2018
Posts: 4964
Topics: 102
Location: Ifield
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:16 am Post subject:
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| Sons FC wrote: | | Phil T wrote: | | Sons FC wrote: | I think you have misunderstood the point.
I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts. |
Whilst the solidarity payment is gross, the 'ticket on the gate' must have the VAT deducted as that portion never belongs to the club.
Remember the club is a tax collector for HMRC..... |
That is not in dispute Phil but the solidarity payment, as income, will be subject to Corporation Tax, which never belongs to the club, etc. |
Corporation tax is only on profits, not revenue. |
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Sons FC
Trainee
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Last Visit: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 19
Topics: 0
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:18 am Post subject:
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| Phil T wrote: | | Sons FC wrote: | | Phil T wrote: | | Sons FC wrote: | I think you have misunderstood the point.
I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts. |
Whilst the solidarity payment is gross, the 'ticket on the gate' must have the VAT deducted as that portion never belongs to the club.
Remember the club is a tax collector for HMRC..... |
That is not in dispute Phil but the solidarity payment, as income, will be subject to Corporation Tax, which never belongs to the club, etc. |
Corporation tax is only on profits, not revenue. |
I know. This is still not the point - like your point in VAT where you deduct the whole of the VAT from the income rather than the VAT balance.
My point remains that the solidarity payment will not be as much as Crawley Town take through the gate. |
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Phil T
Assistant Manager
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Last Visit: 18 Feb 2018
Posts: 4964
Topics: 102
Location: Ifield
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:48 am Post subject:
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| Sons FC wrote: | | Phil T wrote: | | Sons FC wrote: | | Phil T wrote: | | Sons FC wrote: | I think you have misunderstood the point.
I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts. |
Whilst the solidarity payment is gross, the 'ticket on the gate' must have the VAT deducted as that portion never belongs to the club.
Remember the club is a tax collector for HMRC..... |
That is not in dispute Phil but the solidarity payment, as income, will be subject to Corporation Tax, which never belongs to the club, etc. |
Corporation tax is only on profits, not revenue. |
I know. This is still not the point - like your point in VAT where you deduct the whole of the VAT from the income rather than the VAT balance.
My point remains that the solidarity payment will not be as much as Crawley Town take through the gate. |
Methinks you are not an accountant........ |
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Simon
Manager
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Last Visit: 09 Jul 2017
Posts: 12671
Topics: 380
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject:
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| Sons FC wrote: | I think you have misunderstood the point.
I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts. |
Your logic is flawed then.
Your average ticket of £17 is only £14.15 to the club as the VAT has to be paid regardless. So £14.15 is effectively the gross amount as it is the maximum the club will ever see.
However the solidarity payment is 100% income, you only pay corporation tax if the company makes a profit. No profit = no tax. How many years in the last decade do you think Crawley Town has made a profit? |
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Simon
Manager
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Last Visit: 09 Jul 2017
Posts: 12671
Topics: 380
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject:
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| Sons FC wrote: |
I know. This is still not the point - like your point in VAT where you deduct the whole of the VAT from the income rather than the VAT balance.
My point remains that the solidarity payment will not be as much as Crawley Town take through the gate. |
Not convinced. If you take £11 as being the average ticket price when you include STs, kids, free tickets, concessions etc that is £9.16 plus VAT.
£9.16 x 2412 x 23 = £508,000. Hardly anything in it. Particularly next year when we will lose two of our biggest gates (Pompey and Plymouth) and gain Lincoln and FGR. |
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Ian
Director of Football
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Last Visit: 30 May 2017
Posts: 15160
Topics: 214
Location: The Parish of Rusper
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject:
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| Sons FC wrote: | I think you have misunderstood the point.
I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts. |
I think you have misunderstood.
To say our average ticket price is £17, when the TOP PRICE for standing is less than that is, at best, naive. At worst, It's Diane Abbott level maths. Nothing to do with gross or net of VAT.
The club have previously stated the average ticket price to be around the £8/£9 mark (remember the cheapest ticket is a quid!) so to make any meaningful comparison, you must start with a meaningful (and correct!) figure.
Ian |
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Armchairfan
Assistant Manager
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Last Visit: 01 Dec 2020
Posts: 5728
Topics: 63
Location: DFS
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| Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject:
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| Ian wrote: | | Sons FC wrote: | I think you have misunderstood the point.
I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts. |
I think you have misunderstood.
To say our average ticket price is £17, when the TOP PRICE for standing is less than that is, at best, naive. At worst, It's Diane Abbott level maths. Nothing to do with gross or net of VAT.
The club have previously stated the average ticket price to be around the £8/£9 mark (remember the cheapest ticket is a quid!) so to make any meaningful comparison, you must start with a meaningful (and correct!) figure.
Ian |
This is an annual subject isn't it.
It always ends up with the same answers too doesn't it. |
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Ian
Director of Football
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Last Visit: 30 May 2017
Posts: 15160
Topics: 214
Location: The Parish of Rusper
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject:
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| Armchairfan wrote: | | Ian wrote: | | Sons FC wrote: | I think you have misunderstood the point.
I was comparing the solidarity payment with money raised by the club through the gate. To make any meaningful comparison (and this is of course subject to a number of variables) you have to compare like for like, so I have compared the gross amounts. |
I think you have misunderstood.
To say our average ticket price is £17, when the TOP PRICE for standing is less than that is, at best, naive. At worst, It's Diane Abbott level maths. Nothing to do with gross or net of VAT.
The club have previously stated the average ticket price to be around the £8/£9 mark (remember the cheapest ticket is a quid!) so to make any meaningful comparison, you must start with a meaningful (and correct!) figure.
Ian |
This is an annual subject isn't it.
It always ends up with the same answers too doesn't it. |
The average ticket cost is, and it does. Yes.
I see we've started out on fans travelling to London on another thread too  |
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