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What relevance is the location of the ball?
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thad
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

josefk wrote:
So, whilst we're talking laws do you think you can caution a player for persistently infringing on his first foul that they've committed?

I don't know the answer, but it was referenced in last nights Huddersfield versus BHA match... the commentator said of the player being booked, "He's telling the Ref that it is his first offence"... Surprised
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Jim Baker
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In English usage a player cannot be booked for persistent foul play if it's his first offence but in FA I believe a player can be booked if the team are persistently fouling.

I haven't checked that so I'm ready to be incorrect. Shocked

Jim Baker
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Alan (Cheltenham Branch)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then again, for refs like Deadman, 1 foul does seem to count as persistent offending and worthy of a card. Very Happy
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josefk
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
josefk wrote:
So, whilst we're talking laws do you think you can caution a player for persistently infringing on his first foul that they've committed?

I don't know the answer, but it was referenced in last nights Huddersfield versus BHA match... the commentator said of the player being booked, "He's telling the Ref that it is his first offence"... Surprised


I'm sure somewhere in the laws it does state that on the first tackle you can even break the other players legs. Laughing

I think commentary was better back in the 70s, didn't seem to have to make talking points or controversy back then.
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josefk
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Baker wrote:
In English usage a player cannot be booked for persistent foul play if it's his first offence but in FA I believe a player can be booked if the team are persistently fouling.

I haven't checked that so I'm ready to be incorrect. Shocked

Jim Baker


Jim, there's a ref in you just wanting to be released Laughing

Spot on.
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JB
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a player gets cautioned for his "first foul", it will be for unsporting behaviour.
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JB
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

josefk wrote:
thad wrote:
josefk wrote:
So, whilst we're talking laws do you think you can caution a player for persistently infringing on his first foul that they've committed?

I don't know the answer, but it was referenced in last nights Huddersfield versus BHA match... the commentator said of the player being booked, "He's telling the Ref that it is his first offence"... Surprised


I'm sure somewhere in the laws it does state that on the first tackle you can even break the other players legs. Laughing

I think commentary was better back in the 70s, didn't seem to have to make talking points or controversy back then.


Not helped by modern commentators and pundits not knowing the laws of the game either.
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josefk
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JB wrote:
If a player gets cautioned for his "first foul", it will be for unsporting behaviour.

That's not true, can be for persistently infringing. Chances are the parks football won't be like that but move up a few levels and that will come into play.
That was also a question thrown out on the potential new referees night, none of the potential refs got it right as they went for the USB.
It's not as straightforward as it seems and the foul may not be reckless which is what USB would be used for.
You could argue that it doesn't matter as you can't appeal a caution but there is that technicality above.
So, would you caution a "careless" tackle with USB?
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thad
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

josefk wrote:
I'm sure somewhere in the laws it does state that on the first tackle you can even break the other players legs. Laughing

I think commentary was better back in the 70s, didn't seem to have to make talking points or controversy back then.

Current favourite is "there was contact"... well... er.. I believe it is still a contact sport..(?)
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Cakeburner
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But isn't the Law, kicking or attempting to kick ?
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josefk
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cakeburner wrote:
But isn't the Law, kicking or attempting to kick ?


Yes, but in context. The offences listed that are then to be punished by a DFK, or penalty inside the area, are in relation to actual play and the ball being within playing distance. Holding someone in the penalty area whilst the ball is at the other end isn't what was implied, I'm not sure how anyone gets to the point where they believe it otherwise. Not being churlish, but law 12 is for fouls whilst playing football, when it's not being played, as the ball is at the other end of the pitch, then other offences are taking place.

I can kind of, with some serious mental gymnastics, understand the confusion as to why on one offence committed, where the impact is outside the penalty area results in a penalty, but even that really stretches things.

They probably didn't think it necessary to state what they thought was obvious within the laws but maybe it is time to. After all we are in the age where people need to be advised that tea or coffee from a cafe/shop/restaurant/fast food outlet (and all others where you buy the drink in the state it was intended to be consumed) may be hot and cause burns.

I'm not sure any ref, even the newest level 9, would give a penalty as suggested previously so really the confusion is held by people who haven't learnt the laws, and especially the application of. If they did half their saturday afternoon fun would be spoilt when they berate a ref for applying the laws.Whilst the 17 laws were shortened last year the information for considerations within each law seemed larger than ever before. The shame of it is is that the considerations are probably more important for fans to understand things but I'm not sure if they can be accessed by non refs, and even some things aren't available to all refs.
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josefk
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
josefk wrote:
I'm sure somewhere in the laws it does state that on the first tackle you can even break the other players legs. Laughing

I think commentary was better back in the 70s, didn't seem to have to make talking points or controversy back then.

Current favourite is "there was contact"... well... er.. I believe it is still a contact sport..(?)


There's definitely a few comments that cause a groan and that's one of them.

Others are he got the ball, last man, only his first tackle etc.
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