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weststandwatcher
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:

Lee you don't even go to home games anymore.

You gave up your right to an opinion.

#fairweatherfan

#prefersskysports


Well that just about sums me up.

Laughing

Except of course, the right to an opinion isn't purchased along with a ticket to The Checkatrade Stadium. They are an inalienable right that we all have.

You are free to ignore that opinion.

You are free to challenge that opinion.

We are all free to express our opinions.
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Simon
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

compsdakeeper wrote:
Mark Yates is not the problem. Let's look at the facts...

Fact 1 - Our owner is no longer investing the large sums he previously has done.

Fact 2 - We have a few players that John Gregory signed on 2 year deals (i.e. Harrold, Smith, Bradley, Tomlin, Young).

Fact 3 - The majority of Yates' budget hasn't been spent by Yates.

All of these facts leave me feeling sympathetic with Yates. He is working with both hands tied behind his back and, in my opinion, what he has delivered so far (i.e. 14 points above relegation and some decent displays, such as Cambridge away and winning 7 from the last 9 away games *I think that's right*) has been more than acceptable.

Crawley Town's problems are in the Board Room, not the manager's office.


Winning 7 from the last 9 aways - you must have been on the sherbet again Wink

But your analysis is spot on. With 2,000 people through the gate it all comes down to s.
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thad
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weststandwatcher wrote:
Except of course, the right to an opinion isn't purchased along with a ticket to The Checkatrade Stadium. They are an inalienable right that we all have.

You are free to ignore that opinion.

You are free to challenge that opinion.

We are all free to express our opinions.

Spot on... and of course, we are also free to spend our disposable income as we see fit... the football club have no divine right to expect customers to turn up and pay for a product that they find sub-standard...

...I still do it... I still enjoy it, possibly for the wrong reasons... possibly more to do with a sense of brand loyalty, camaraderie and sentiment... I don't think that can always be taken for granted and I would struggle to provide a credible argument why new fans should attend, beyond the irrational factors that still somehow retain my interest.
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lee 66
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've lost our way I'm afraid.We probably did the day the money men turned up half a decade ago.Those making key decisions back then got way ahead of themselves and for whatever reasons had delusions of grandeur that were at that early stage of funding misguided.We saw this small non league club suddenly morphing into something it could never realistically sustain.I'm not just talking about the players and their wages and the big signing on fees,but more the way the normal easy going non league supporter we all are were just expected to fall in line and forget why we loved following non league football in the first place.
We were told the players couldn't engage with supporters anymore because those days were gone.We saw a cull on younger rowdy supporters because they were deemed not suitable anymore.We saw the club badge change in the hope of reaching out to West Sussex and businesses in the Gatwick Diamond and just suddenly dismissing the town of Crawley.
We saw changes in the redz bar.It became a place many fans didn't enjoy going to.It used to be packed back in the conference days when players joined fans for the man of the match awards after games.
We then had the horrendous period of blue coated security stewards treating fans with contempt.We even up to just recently had fans marched out and threatened with eviction for just doing what football fans do during a match.
Theres loads of other things that the club have got wrong and if you add that with the demise of the team over the last two seasons then it's no wonder we are where we are.
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Born in Crawley Hospital
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

compsdakeeper wrote:
Crawley Town's problems are in the Board Room, not the manager's office.


I'd say Crawley Town's biggest problem is with the town.

It's all well and good to have a day out at Old Trafford, to cling on to that bandwagon when we're winning every week and get promoted. It's another thing to actually support a club when times are a little tough.

So if YOU are staying away because you don't think the football is good enough or boring then the truth is that you are part of a problem. The club cannot function without money and that includes your money.

So whilst other less fairweather fans keep the club going you can slope back whenever you think it's more palatable. You did it for Old Trafford, all the other cup runs and when things are rosie and you'll do it again.
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bridgesboy79
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is too simplistic to say it is down to the manager. Even under Evans, we never looked like getting promoted from the conference until the money came in. Any half decent manager (which excludes Gregory) should have won the league with that money. Even Graham Westley managed it with Stevenage!

We have had a number of managers since who have not been backed with anything like the same budget. I would ask this of the owners at this point. Either back Yates with a decent budget (enough so that we are less heavily reliant on loans) or sell the club to someone who will either back him or someone else in this way. Relying so heavily on loans also means that we will need an entirely new squad next season as well. It is pointless to announce the club is up for sale whilst not having made progress here in the last 3 years. Whoever is managing the club is being set up to fail with how the club is currently run.

On the pitch there are two main problems. One is the lack of budget (not the manager's fault). The other is that we often seem to be reactive in games (which IS in the manager's control). Yeovil's two substitutes scored yesterday. I know Barnard did as well but this was too late to make a difference.

Once things are in a better position behind the scenes, we stand a better chance on the pitch of having a higher quality of squad (whether it is under Yates or someone else). Changing the manager all the time without looking behind the scenes first will result in the same discussions in a few months IMHO.
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Paulc222
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lee 66 wrote:

We then had the horrendous period of blue coated security stewards treating fans with contempt.We even up to just recently had fans marched out and threatened with eviction for just doing what football fans do during a match.


This was a very big factor for me in not renewing my season ticket some while back.
I've never been removed from a game in my life but reserve the right to get excited about what happens on the pitch - even if that means expressing displeasure at the opposition.
I'm the sort of person who would probably stay away for a very long time if I felt that I had been treated unfairly. I wasn't prepared to spend money on a season ticket that would end up wasted.
The result was that I started missing games - just the odd one at first but it did become more of a habit.
Then we had a situation this season when I stayed away in sympathy with others who I felt had been unfairly banned. This gave me the opportunity to earn more money, plus I started attending a creative writing group some Saturdays (though I could never become as creative as Triple-R) Smile .
The bluecoats may have been told some time ago to go a bit easier, but the damage was already done. The bannings just added to it.
So, I've been to relatively few games this season - and it's nothing to do with what happens on the pitch.
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Born in Crawley Hospital
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bridgesboy79 wrote:
It is too simplistic to say it is down to the manager. Even under Evans, we never looked like getting promoted from the conference until the money came in. Any half decent manager (which excludes Gregory) should have won the league with that money. Even Graham Westley managed it with Stevenage!

We have had a number of managers since who have not been backed with anything like the same budget. I would ask this of the owners at this point. Either back Yates with a decent budget (enough so that we are less heavily reliant on loans) or sell the club to someone who will either back him or someone else in this way. Relying so heavily on loans also means that we will need an entirely new squad next season as well. It is pointless to announce the club is up for sale whilst not having made progress here in the last 3 years. Whoever is managing the club is being set up to fail with how the club is currently run.

On the pitch there are two main problems. One is the lack of budget (not the manager's fault). The other is that we often seem to be reactive in games (which IS in the manager's control). Yeovil's two substitutes scored yesterday. I know Barnard did as well but this was too late to make a difference.

Once things are in a better position behind the scenes, we stand a better chance on the pitch of having a higher quality of squad (whether it is under Yates or someone else). Changing the manager all the time without looking behind the scenes first will result in the same discussions in a few months IMHO.


I don't understand your point. On one hand you say talking about money is "too simplistic" then on the other hand you talk about getting new owners to fund the club so we can get a better squad.

Who on earth is going to plough money into Crawley? It would be dead money, it certainly would not be an investment.

The funding we received for two or three years may well be a once in a lifetime experience.

At the moment the club and its fans are on its own and it has to generate its own income so those that stay away are the problem.
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bridgesboy79
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
bridgesboy79 wrote:
It is too simplistic to say it is down to the manager. Even under Evans, we never looked like getting promoted from the conference until the money came in. Any half decent manager (which excludes Gregory) should have won the league with that money. Even Graham Westley managed it with Stevenage!

We have had a number of managers since who have not been backed with anything like the same budget. I would ask this of the owners at this point. Either back Yates with a decent budget (enough so that we are less heavily reliant on loans) or sell the club to someone who will either back him or someone else in this way. Relying so heavily on loans also means that we will need an entirely new squad next season as well. It is pointless to announce the club is up for sale whilst not having made progress here in the last 3 years. Whoever is managing the club is being set up to fail with how the club is currently run.

On the pitch there are two main problems. One is the lack of budget (not the manager's fault). The other is that we often seem to be reactive in games (which IS in the manager's control). Yeovil's two substitutes scored yesterday. I know Barnard did as well but this was too late to make a difference.

Once things are in a better position behind the scenes, we stand a better chance on the pitch of having a higher quality of squad (whether it is under Yates or someone else). Changing the manager all the time without looking behind the scenes first will result in the same discussions in a few months IMHO.


I don't understand your point. On one hand you say talking about money is "too simplistic" then on the other hand you talk about getting new owners to fund the club so we can get a better squad.

Who on earth is going to plough money into Crawley? It would be dead money, it certainly would not be an investment.

The funding we received for two or three years may well be a once in a lifetime experience.

At the moment the club and its fans are on its own and it has to generate its own income so those that stay away are the problem.


No I didn't say that at all. I said talking about the manager is too simplistic, not the budget! Read my first sentence again please!
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Born in Crawley Hospital
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bridgesboy79 wrote:
Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
bridgesboy79 wrote:
It is too simplistic to say it is down to the manager. Even under Evans, we never looked like getting promoted from the conference until the money came in. Any half decent manager (which excludes Gregory) should have won the league with that money. Even Graham Westley managed it with Stevenage!

We have had a number of managers since who have not been backed with anything like the same budget. I would ask this of the owners at this point. Either back Yates with a decent budget (enough so that we are less heavily reliant on loans) or sell the club to someone who will either back him or someone else in this way. Relying so heavily on loans also means that we will need an entirely new squad next season as well. It is pointless to announce the club is up for sale whilst not having made progress here in the last 3 years. Whoever is managing the club is being set up to fail with how the club is currently run.

On the pitch there are two main problems. One is the lack of budget (not the manager's fault). The other is that we often seem to be reactive in games (which IS in the manager's control). Yeovil's two substitutes scored yesterday. I know Barnard did as well but this was too late to make a difference.

Once things are in a better position behind the scenes, we stand a better chance on the pitch of having a higher quality of squad (whether it is under Yates or someone else). Changing the manager all the time without looking behind the scenes first will result in the same discussions in a few months IMHO.


I don't understand your point. On one hand you say talking about money is "too simplistic" then on the other hand you talk about getting new owners to fund the club so we can get a better squad.

Who on earth is going to plough money into Crawley? It would be dead money, it certainly would not be an investment.

The funding we received for two or three years may well be a once in a lifetime experience.

At the moment the club and its fans are on its own and it has to generate its own income so those that stay away are the problem.


No I didn't say that at all. I said talking about the manager is too simplistic, not the budget! Read my first sentence again please!


My apologies, you are correct.

The rest of my post stands though.
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thad
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
At the moment the club and its fans are on its own and it has to generate its own income so those that stay away are the problem.

Not really.. they are the ones who have a sense of affinity to the club and are prepared to part with their cash for a matchday experience they can appreciate and enjoy, they are available & willing to be enticed to return and are therefore part of the solution...

...the problem remains those locals who consider themselves football fans, but are not attracted by the value on offer by joining in the live football experience at Crawley Town, they exist in a large enough quantity to REALLY make a difference and a serious economic impact.

The club can win back the disenchanted, it is the disengaged they struggle with and it is vital NOW not to let those in the former category slip into the latter group.
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Phil T
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
It's all well and good to have a day out at Old Trafford, to cling on to that bandwagon when we're winning every week and get promoted. It's another thing to actually support a club when times are a little tough.


A man and his money.

If I have a bad experience in a restaurant, I don't go back. But football fans are expected to go back week after week.

We say we enjoy the experience. If it wasn't for the friends I go with, the 'whole day' experience we have, I'd attend less often.
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Simon
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil T wrote:
Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
It's all well and good to have a day out at Old Trafford, to cling on to that bandwagon when we're winning every week and get promoted. It's another thing to actually support a club when times are a little tough.


A man and his money.

If I have a bad experience in a restaurant, I don't go back. But football fans are expected to go back week after week.

We say we enjoy the experience. If it wasn't for the friends I go with, the 'whole day' experience we have, I'd attend less often.


Not sure that's a great example Phil. If you go to a restaurant you are entitled to expect food as described, hot and cooked to hygiene standards. Plus it is reasonable to expect it to be consistent day in day out.

Football has always been far more variable than that, even in the Premier League you get games that are entertaining and others that are dull as ditchwater. Take Norwich v Liverpool compared to the Man U v Southampton borefest yesterday. No consistency at all.

It's always been that way, I can remember plenty of wretched spectacles in the Southern League and Conference along the way.
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Red, Red & Red
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our dire situation is down to peiple like dunceford and owners mistakes however yates circus has taken us further down no improvements more boring football the guy is hopelessly inadequote sack him now!!!!
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Wodin
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile a good sensible well considered debate.

And then R,R & R Very Happy

But I do agree with the point that the town has been apathetic towards the club, with the exception of a good cup game of course when we have many thousands of supporters in the new staff.

What the board may wish to consider is how to keep the current fans on board ( sorry for the over use of 'board', bloody english language). That should mean greater mix with players at MoM and in the bar. It should mean more regular fan nights.

This year and last does feel different, it is not the results, it is not the management...but it is of concern to me
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